@f1nch , @George.Kissandrakis Just to make sure, as per your declaration, it seems you are accusing the EUPP of:
(i) have abandoned the essence of the Pirate Ideology, which is antiracist, democratic, antimilitarist, pacifist, egalitarian, and promotes the peoples’ right to liberty and self-determination;
(a) promote militarism and a new arms race;
(b) have fully adopted the positions and rhetoric of the extreme far-right and corrupt Israeli government;
(c) express an impertinent contempt towards International Law, the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, the plethora of well-respected international humanitarian relief organizations, as well as the international Press freedom and civil and human rights organizations.
Since you’re asking me personally, I first refer to you my previous response.
Then, I suggest you inspect the last two PPEU Council Meetings (sit and listen to the whole recordings, and also you may look at the transcripts - although I’m sure they lack many verbal moments compared to what was said) - one such moment is that members of PPDE accused PPGR of supporting Hamas (something that PPNL also pursued later), while PPGR was the first PP of the whole PPEU organization (to the best of my knowledge) that condemned the actions of Hamas. Λευτεριά κι αλληλεγγύη στον Παλαιστινιακό λαό – Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας – Pirate party of Greece
Additionally, regardless of our political motions being rejected (motions that would certainly raise some discussion - as they should in a PP European-level Council Meeting), after informing my party about what happened, I proceeded as ppl spontaneously decided and suggested, to pursue with those as oral questions towards the board nominations. This was our last effort to somehow produce some political discussion in our procedure. One such question for example was: “Do you denounce the imperialist practices of USA and NATO over Greenland, Canada, Panama, and Gaza?”
During this question, there were members from the part of PPDE who posted a photo of some paintball run or whatever, with themselves holding the flags of both PPI and NATO, which is a shame for our movement. I didn’t see anyone but only a few people opposing that. The PPEU stood silent (a). As it still stays silent on the ongoing genocide in Palestine, and so on (i,c - you may see the motions submitted in the last and the previous Council Meetings).
Then, when members of PPGR proceeded to publicly denounce far-right and Netanyahu’s regime propaganda that was being reshared by other PP members (all that occurring in social media), the PPEU Board considered it a good idea to proceed with: Vote on the referral to the Code of Conduct Council (b).
Also, please stop with the sealioning! If you’re really interested, I suggest you actually read the Rethymno Declaration. (It’s soon going to be actually translated in eng, because auto-translate doesn’t work well ofc). That’s the important part. Raising political concerns. Not solving mere procedural issues! If you feel unwell by what I claim, I suggest you don’t read what Florie Marie stated during her resignation in the last PPI Council Meeting I participated:
It’s only sad that what happened to PPI - rooted to PPEU as well. But it is what it is I guess!
From now on, because I really see extreme cases of such sealioning occurring more and more frequently after our decision to leave both PPI and PPEU, I’m not willing to respond.
If you have any questions or remarks about the Rethymno Declaration, I’d love to hear about it. But over the actual politics of it. Not those boring little games that you’re trying to play - this is not politics - well, might be for many people - not for us - not for pirates!
The only thing I see here that you are doing is avoiding the topic and avoiding to respond to a very clear question:
If you have any evidence that the EUPP committed any of the above accusations
That’s about it.
Instead what I only see is even more accusations, and going completely out of topic. Especially that your accusations are very very serious. And you’re avoiding the topic completely.
All I can see here is the tendency of forcing the other to talk. Nothing more.
Basically the tactic of “start talking, or you’re fascist”.
In normal human to human talk, this is called abuse.
I don’t know what you are employed in, or how is your personal relationship with family or friends nor am I interested, but I would not have the guts to do this even to my closest of friends, forceful extraction of answer. This is plain barbaric, and quite very typically fascist as well.
And this, after all, is not at all that I don’t agree with your concerns. Your concerns are quite real. (!!)
But if you start accusing a organization without even the slightest of evidence, or putting labels on it based on inaction, might as well call yourselves fascists, due to the same exact tactic applied.
I provided you with evidence in (parentheses) to each of your claims. You’re still not willing to see them. That’s fine. There’s no case you actually managed to listen to two PPEU Council Meetings in such a short notice. The answers as the evidence to what you demand from me to collect you right now, exist there.
Additionally, it’s not like that at all “start talking or you’re a fascist”. If you ask me, it’s basically like “PPEU is not in a position to condemn an ongoing genocide? That’s a very clear reason for me to be out of here.”
PPEU can stay silent forever. I don’t care anymore! That’s PPEU’s issue to examine. I’m out.
When a peer asks for evidence, do you send them back to Google?
No argumentation necessary? No presentation of written idea and taking written counter-arguments?
I feel like I’m talking with a troll.
“Go and watch for yourself” is not a argument, it’s a rude and uneducated, short-spanned response.
Well, sorry if my behavior isn’t the best towards you atm, but I need you to understand that you’re like the 6th person demanding such answers from me in the past 2-3 days, during which I also have to work on my PhD, on my full-time job, on other academic-related obligations, and to try to also have a personal life.
Start here:
And also see what the political outcome was of the 17th PPEU Council Meeting.*
What I mean, is that I’ve already stated everything you ask me in previous responses all around the PPEU online platforms. The answers are there. Please don’t demand from me to exclaim them again and again. In the very end, it’s a sad situation that you’re making me re-live. I feel like I’m talking to a judge!
FIN.
~f1nch
PS: For real though, take care. I can’t keep going like that.
*PS2: Heck, the political outcome of the 18th Council Meeting wasn’t any better. I mean, we saw a counter-motion of the PPEU Board to ours, about the ongoing genocide, which was basically rejected by the same people who submitted it as well.
Minutes are common for meetings. Nobody asked for more, esp.something violating the GDPR. That one only assume it is being asked for. I won’t, nor did.
I would say that the comment where a member of PPNL accused PPGR of supporting Hamas is more appropriate as an example, and it was also the reason why I am questioning the actions of the board. Apparently accusing a member party of supporting terrorists was not enough to grant the attention of the board.
The comment you are quoting is unsettling, but unfortunately it could be realistic that some German prosecutor would try to pull this card given how the laws against antisemitism and Holocaust denial have been weaponized to suppress criticism of Israel and crush voices in favour of the Palestinian people.
In the meantime in Italy Tajani just blamed… Iran. Yes, it blamed Iran for it’s “excessive response” to the Israeli attack. No “Iran must defend itself” rhetoric. Apparently killing innocent people is a crime only if they are from a Western country or one of its allies.
If you’re really interested, I suggest you actually read the Rethymno Declaration. (It’s soon going to be actually translated in eng, because auto-translate doesn’t work well ofc). That’s the important part. Raising political concerns. Not solving mere procedural issues! If you feel unwell by what I claim, I suggest you don’t read what Florie Marie stated during her resignation in the last PPI Council Meeting I participated:
