Reaction to this post: https://www.pirateparty.gr/rethymno-declaration-gr/

[ThomasG]

Like with PPI, you decline any contact with the chair who contacted PPGR multiple times. The same with PP Israel. PPGR never even bothered to answer to any of these contact attempts. So far PPGR just blames others like PPI and PPEU for not responding ans blaming them for doing nothing instead. Please stop lying and stick to the truth. You are not furthering the pirate movement, or is your real intent to destroy everything that was built up over the years and not improving it?.

Again, stick to the truth and do not blame others for your strategy of not talking with other pirate parties or “head” organisations.You are not alone in these democratic organisaations. Talk and discuss and expect other point of views while discussion issues. You cannot dictate others to comply with given blame games.

Rethink and talk. Thank you!

[Mab]

@ThomasG Is your reply related to something else than the start of this thread? Perhaps it was intended for this thread?

I split of this into a separate thread, to make the conversations more understandable. @ThomasG: feel free to change the title of the topic. I created a placeholder topic for the new thread.

[ThomasG]

It is the overall, resulting from: Η Διακήρυξη του Ρεθύμνου – Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας – Pirate party of Greece

[vasper]

Let us get this straight. The PPEU, it seems, wants no public discourse and reactions on any matter of policy.
If NOT then read the Rethymno Declaration and you will see that it is heavy on policy (a translation is coming). Focus on that then.

As for the contact attempts, other than the official mails calling for meetings of PPEU and PPI and some posts here and ONE email by PPI 3 days ago, there has been no other attempt to contact PPGR by PPEU, so please, don’t lie.

Also, how can PPGR, destroy what “was built”? Do you really believe people in Germany stopped supporting PPDE because of what we say? You did that. On your own. So, please don’t blame us.

There are members that left and former supporters of PPDE and others like in PPNL that are appalled by the conduct of the same members we criticized.

Because IT IS about politics. PPEU and PPI want the pirate movement to appear as a melting pot of ideas that unite, but they do the opposite by letting prominent members of the Pirate Party spew fake news and propaganda and react only when those members complain about their views being outed for what they are.

The entire timeline of the PPEU destroying it self, for anyone that cares to understand it, is documented in these three articles:

Quo Vaditis, Piratae? – Part 1 – Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας – Pirate party of Greece

Quo Vaditis, Piratae? – Part 2 – Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας – Pirate party of Greece

Quo Vaditis, Piratae? – Part 3 – Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας – Pirate party of Greece

You talk about “strategy of not talking with other pirate parties or “head” organisations.”. Talk about what? Whenever we raise an issue of importance, you say “not the time”, or start acting defensively like now.

Pirate Party claims to be about evidence based politics.

Then how do you account for Schoresch Davoodi’s latest posts with already debunked propaganda about the funding of environmental NGOs by the EU to harm German industry? What about Max Kehm using racial slurs against Palestinians?

To be clear. We are not saying that PPDE or PPNL or other pirate parties have no place in politics. There were and are Pirates out there that are doing good work. We are saying that some “pirates” are now promoting policies and ignoring situations that will leed to them becoming irrelevant. We have seen it happen. Activists are leaving the Pirate Party because of unclear politics, slow reactions, or just plain inaction. Most women have left the Pirate movement because of chauvinistic views by other members or are blocking them because of it.

Sorry, NOT Sorry,

Vassilis Perantzakis
President of the governing board of the Pirate Party of Greece

[f1nch]

I’m truly surprised by the high-entropy activity that is going on these days in PPEU and PPI. I’m not surprised as to why it happened now (6 months after the PPEU council meeting during which we stated that we’re lacking critical political discussion and 2 years after the issues we stated in the PPI council meeting with the resignation of the board chair back then), I’m surprised mainly because people act surprised and offended (if that’s the correct word to use).

As stated, it’s been 6 months since we first made it known to the PPEU parties that we sincerely believe that we lack political discussion in our organization, to which we were reassured that it will be improved. Nevertheless, in the last council meeting political discussion was once again rejected. If PPEU thinks that the delegations of its parties cannot yield political results through the council meetings, then it should try to reconsider how the council meetings work, opening them up to all parties’ members that would like to participate, in an effort to better achieve that? Making the council meetings last longer? There are many ways to achieve that.

Regardless of the above-mentioned, I’m sure the delegations of the PPEU council meeting transferred to their parties the opinion of PPGR that PPEU lacks political discussion (at the very least) - 6 months already, and thus people should be neither surprised nor offended by it!

Finally, regarding the argument that “the resolutions were posted in very short notice”, if the PPEU parties had not already discussed the corresponding issues at hand, the delegations could abstain making it clear that their parties had not thoroughly discussed that topic. However, if a pirate party hasn’t discussed an ongoing genocide for 1+ year, that’s an internal issue and they should look for ways to actively engage in politics. After all, the delegations are voted by their parties to transfer their ideas and their political opinions to the PPEU. Additionally that argument ( “the resolutions were posted in very short notice”) falls short on the example I’m stating about the Palestinian genocide, because even after having the resolution postponed for the next council meeting, the delegations’ political discussion over it during the last council meeting was not political at all. (Saying that “genocide” is a strong word that only the justice system can exclaim - only to later reject the counter-motion that didn’t contain the term as well is not a political discussion). And don’t get me wrong, the counter-motion, as I also stated in the council meeting, had greatly improved the writing of our original one - it just lacked something important: the recognition of the ongoing genocide - and even after that and by pushing PPGR to finally go and vote for it, the majority of delegations rejected it for no actual political reason at all!